As of 9/6/14, posted on wwoec forum's Introductions and Departures thread:
If the forum admin / moderators would be so kind as to add me to the forum's Do Not Post list, it would be greatly appreciated.
This will be my last post on wwoec.
Regards,
Phillipthe2
If someone would inform me when/if they have indeed done so, it would be greatly appreciated.
Nothing yet, but sad to see you leave there. I understand your reasons, and hope you change your mind in the future.
ReplyDeleteAs I understand I'm on there as of a few days ago.
DeleteI don't foresee going back happening. Irregardless of rule-mongering, temperamental moderators with god-complexes forums are...well...a dying breed. The proverbial internet dinosaurs waiting for a meteor. They say that only the best art shows up on there, but...yeah, that may have been true several years ago.
Then again, here I am, posting on a blog. How very 1999 of me. :P
Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards I feel, and going back to 1999 tech is a lot better than say having a rulemongering God Complex like Moderator telling y9ou what to and what not to post.. But then I prefer the blogs over the actual groups.. why? Cause Groups are nothing more than cliques and sheeple.. and if you aren't part of either then you are not welcome.. and frankly I can see why I might still just leave.. It's the lack of their feedback and creativity that has killed my willing to post..
DeleteSo yeah Let's go back.. to the future!
Tucsoncoyote
I don't blame you one bit. I refuse to post there anymore, simply lurk. The mods are completely out of control and Cobra refuses to reign them in, so I'm out.
ReplyDeleteAnd now WWOEC has lost a fair number of artists/members over this, they should be worried but clearly have their heads firmly up their keisters...
Well, at least here you can do as you like and nobody has any say about it. Thanks for all the great art and looking forward to new artwork from you!
RogerMaris was the only moderator I had any interaction with on a regular-ish basis. He and I usually seemed to be on the same page and was pretty fair-dealing despite the bad-mouthing I've heard here and there.
DeleteFairySlayer...don't recall saying so much as three words to him/her in all those years, but the sixteen words he/she had for me were....well, here we are.
Unless something drastic should happen I don't have any plan on leaving this blog or DA. Thinking about giving HF a try again...as I understand it their rules for colorist have slackened quite a bit since I left there.
What I don't like about WWOEC are the two classes of folks that exist there.. the overhandedness of the mods who literally will and will not allow you to post materials, and the "Sheeple" who nod their heads in time with the amount of art you put up..
DeleteFrankly the former just try to control and manipulate what you want to post and not post..
and the latter Really discourages you from doing any additional work on art or stories.. and that is the worst damagig thing of them all.. Cause without feedback or commentary from people about a story or a piece of art, you have no idea as to how to fix or correct things, and make a good story or piece of art better..
It's only when the last person who is artistically creative leaves.. and like eltf has pointed out, they're starting to leave...
it's only a matter of time before that asteroid hits, and some major artist or two tells folks not ot post his art up on the site..
and from what I hear.. It might be sooner than later..
Tucsoncoyote
According to Nurse Katie you are now DNP on WWOEC. And people are whining "why is he leaving?"
ReplyDeleteTheir loss, our gain.
I'm in agreement with eltf177 here, and in fact I can confirm you are on the DNP list now.. Frankly I'm not worried as I am more of a follower of you can WWOEC fans, and I enjoy your work.. Also you might have known me in the other forum as a certain (Evil) weather genius..
DeleteBut the point is this.. They did this to themsleves by having one moderator act like a jerk.. like ELTF said, THeir loss, the rest of us enjoy your work.. oh and keep up the good work.. Also I noted you about a certain picture to color if you are interested (Sadly it was posted on WWOEC after you got .. well you know..)
ANyway Hope this new reboot, helps get you noticed more.. They don't realize what they really lost.. but some of us would rather defect and not comment anymore on such a forum that has a despot running it.. We enjoy art, and it doesn't matter if it's Nude or not either.. if it's great art it's done by a professional..
Take care and keep in contact..
Tucsoncoytoe (The Alternate self of a certain evil Weather Genius who appreciates your art!
Yeah, I saw your note on DA, just haven't gotten around to responding.
DeleteHere's part of a reply from an earlier comment here:
"Irregardless of rule-mongering, temperamental moderators with god-complexes forums are...well...a dying breed. The proverbial internet dinosaurs waiting for a meteor. They (wwoec) say that only the best art shows up on there, but...yeah, that may have been true several years ago."
And RogerMaris9 is being a total prick over on WWOEC about this as usual...
ReplyDeleteYou were _not_ appreciated or respected and had every right to pack it up. Some people actually hold out hope you may return...
I noticed his last comment when he closed the Intro and Departures thread.
DeleteOther than Nurse Katie, the other mods that commented in that thread sounded a little butt-hurt.
@eltf177.:The mod (Rogermarris9) actually said that? Shows me how little he cares for art.. and I wonder what he would say if I contacted a fellow artists here and actually ask Mr., Marris to remove all few thousands of his pictures.. and for good reason.. For a person who has no sense of art, shouldn't be running a board like this.. Frankly He should be trolling 4chan instead..
Delete@phillppethe2: Frankly of all the people in that thrad that posted only a few were sincere, many were not.. This really shows me how far humanity doesn't like art anymore.. Cause iif Leonardo Da Winci was alive and kicking and he ever had done a nude version of the mona lisa and posted it up on WWOEC, it sees the mods would still rule it to be too clothed even if it was totally of an erotic nature.. Frankly this shows me a lack of art, either erotic or not..In fact it's guys like these who help kill artistic creativity than to encourage somoene to try and draw, or even right.. IN short, WWOEC has beobeome more of a festering cesspool than a place where people can equitably share artistic and creative ideas.. and I'm an idea man first and foremost.. that's why I am willing to share ideas with others.. Cause I DO appreciate art, and enjoy it immensely..
But these guys? *Shakes Head* They're just this way cause they're jealous they can't color like you or do art like somoene else or even write to save their lives.. Frankly it's a shame really.. to see a bunch of unappreciative people act like that..
Oh and feel free to get around to my note when you want to.. I'm a very patient kind of guy, and after all I DO appreciate the work you do.
After all the evil genius is in me willing to give out ideas... and to share works that were created for the enjoyment of all..
So until then.. Keep your eyes on the skies, and ignore the trolls. Cause Ogres are much better..
Tucsoncoyote
I'm just wondering how much longer before that place implodes, given the rate of artists/writers/members leaving or no longer posting...
ReplyDeleteWell, I've said it before and I'll say it again:
DeleteForums like that in this day and age are proverbial internet dinosaurs...waiting for a meteor.
I tend to agree and would like to add one additional thing.. They also tend to kill creativity of art.. and music and writing.. It's almost like these people have enver seen the Mona Lisa or any great works of art either.. Shows how unculturally minded they are..
DeleteAt least some of us do have cuture and we don't mind giving feedback to an artist.. that's what seperates the mammals from the dinosaurs.. We learn to adapt...
and take constructive criticisms..
Tucsoncoyote
Phillip, First off I do enjoy your artwork, I especially love your continued interest in Erin Esurance. and am overjoyed you continue to put out artwork featuring her. I have much respect for you and I can understand that your situation with the WWOCE forum made you upset.
ReplyDeleteThat said...
I'm not wanting to start some big 'them v, us' debacle here, but honestly your two commentators here must be visiting some other forum entirely. WWOEC is far from a place that "kills the creativity of art", in light of recent events in the erotic art world, it's becoming one of the last bastions of creative expression for the loli/shota community. in this ever increasing world of conservative, white knight lawmaking, our entire hobby is being slowly picked apart, every passing year new protection laws seek to blur the lines of what is real and what is ink on paper, forcing websites to eliminate what is being held as fringe content, or risk losing the income that provides the sites upkeep.
WWOEC is privately funded, therefore the owner does not have to bow to the ad companies that fund other such sites. Yet, this ability to host content that others are forced to pull does come at a price, that price seems to be the biggest beef you and the other two have with the site.
ReplyDeleteThere is only so much bandwitdh that the owner can afford to pay for. Therefor, limits have to be set. like it or not, images depicting characters with clothing covering the genitalia and breasts, are something that was decided long ago would not be permitted to be posted. this was done not in an attempt to be mean spirited, not in a mindset to crush creativity, but in a mindset that if everyone on the forum was allowed to post whatever they thought was sexy, we would quickly run out of room and go over what Cobra can afford to pay. once that happens, it's good-bye to all the content, as the web host would simply punch clear and sell the sever space to some other site.
In that much yes WWOEC does limit what can be uploaded, and does regularly enforce these limits. Roger is not some rule mongering dictator, Ive gotten to know him pretty well over the years and hes a pretty decent guy. but he's just like anyone else in that there is only so much b.s. he is willing to put up with before he feels he needs to swat the gnats away.
even then, he's more than fair when trying to keep both the site owner's polices intact and keep members happy. and as a rule the people that most often get the ire of the man are the repeat offenders that never seem to even acknowledge that the broke and continue to break rules.
Most of these are people who are not interested in the social aspects of the forum beyond an obsession with amassing high post counts, thanks, and reputation points.
more still are the people that think the forum is just an image dump that you put up whatever you happened to have found elsewhere, and leave it up to the staff to sort out the reposts, DNP and otherwise prohibited content.
these two types contribute to most of the rules that have had to be made,
because they also have the most butthurt when their post get removed.
Johnny Random, who's been a member since 08, yet his greatest contribution to said forum is a few posts that simply read: Here's sum pics... followed by a slew of stuff that he gleaned from paheal, HF, and tumblr that he just put up without checking if they were already there, or if they were one the forum artists works.
the mods remove the post and Johnny rages about how the forum is shit because his posts, with pic he found (not drew mind you) got removed.
Mods ignore for the most part but Johnny does the same thing next time.
Johnny rages again at the next removal and when the mods warn him about not doing it again Johnny grumbles about how strict he place is.
Johnny pulls the same thing again later mods tired of picking up after johnny, Johnny gets a temp ban. Johnny forms an opinion that WWOEC is fascist Europe, bitches about it on other sites.
This is the shit that Roger and the other staff members have to deal with all the time.
like it or not if you roll in and drop off stuff they just deleted, don't gripe when they assume you're stirring things up or just don't give a fuck like Johnny Random.
On a final note,WWOEC Artists are welcome to contribute any kind of erotic artwork they happen to create, their semi nudes are exempt from the limits imposed on uploading.
ReplyDeleteAt it's heart The forum has been and will continue to be a home for talented artists, and a social exchange for both ideas, constructive criticism and praise, as well as a social gathering place to get away from or discuss the ups and downs of daily life, for said artists and art lovers at large.
What it is not is a image dump, or a veiled ground, where anons can take pot shots at artists for the lulz. As such, there are a number of rules in place to to prevent it from ever getting that way. I would say that 90% of the community both know and understand why the rules are in place. And, they reap the benefits of a community where they can discuss a number of issues in both the art world, and the greater world, without it turning into who can throw the biggest handful of shit.
if anything can be said, its that most of our members and staff are very protective of this forum made relatively free of troll B.S. as such, people that start making waves to that end tend to be eyed warily.
"if anything can be said, its that most of our members and staff are very protective of this forum made relatively free of troll B.S. as such, people that start making waves to that end tend to be eyed warily. "
DeleteRogerMaris9's snarky comments and threats all over WWOEC prove that to be a lie...
You try removing disallowed images from several dozen threads each day, only to have the same pics reappear hours later, the whole time having the posters of those pics asking you why they must follow the rules of the realm and why there can't be an exception made (benefiting the them obviously), and see if your posts don't start show some of the frustration you're dealing with.
DeleteEven at that, leaving a snarky remark when addressing a poster that 9/10 times has had multiple posts removed already, with the gist of 'Do it again and you might not be here to do it anymore.' is not something I'd say is trollish.
The fact of the matter is that Roger gives out far more praise than he does ire, he's one of the major givers of + rep points on the site. But just because he's the workhorse of the staff, keeping the stuff that doesn't belong, off. he's the guy every body bitches about. If another mod was the one that did it, regardless of how they approached the job, they would be the 'bad guy'. Frankly, having that stance is far more childish and troll like than some snark handed out to people that probably had it coming to them anyhow.
Sorry, non-convinced. Especially as much of his comments are far beyond just snarky...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous, I can say your 3 post wall of tesxst ntigued me as to why you made a blunder in the first post.. and this is the blunder..
ReplyDeleteYour blunder? Here it is...
Like it or not, images depicting characters with clothing covering the genitalia and breasts, are something that was decided long ago would not be permitted to be posted.
Now then look at post 1589 of the Kim Possible thread of the Disney forum.. Posted by one Doc_Stormfury.. And then put your so called Comment to that picture.. and ask yourself.. Does this person violate the rules..
If youare the hard and fast person and stick to what you said then in short, The poster has violated the rules.. because there's no actual clothing off, there's no genatilia showing, and yet there is a sex act even though booth participants are clothed...
So then, what do you do? Do you
A. Report the infraction to the mods and have them take it down and iron the fans who will ask why it was taken down (Get ready for metoer number 1, and not only that because of this verbal blunder the end result is that any art of any artists tha violate the rule must be taken down as well, see how well that goes over with them.. and the people who respond to them..
Or 2, you can do nothing and act on nothing, leave it be and allow others to take the Stormfury idea and extrapolate it furterh.. and thus you could have thousands of sex scenes with clothing in them and the participants can be clothed, Much to the ire of said moderators..(Meteor #2)
Or 3., Rewrite the rules and make allowances for such things, and keep it that way (This is the smallest Meteor of the three and would cause the least amount of damgage to the posters, and the artists in general.. but yes don't be like Mr. Random.. Alllow Tasteful and tactful art to be posted provided it has a sexual act in it.. Be it foreplay actual sex (even a quickie counts) or the orgasms that fans want to see..
The Late Bob Guccione said t best.. "Pornography doesn't have to be tacky to be considered porn, and in fact my magazine is one of the more tasteful to date that shows sc3enes of sex without making it look tacky.
So, you got 3 metoers to choose from which one would you pick to allow a change in the environment of WWOEC, do you ban and censor artists and ire fans? Do you do nothing and allow stuff like this to happen? or do you moderate and change the rules to make it reasonable for everyone to be happy?
Your choice and if you choose 3, then maybe the issue will be resolved and this commening of the posters will come to a close..
Tucsoncoyote
How about I choose meteor 4, which is just a pebble.
DeleteI did make an error in not recalling and stating that there are a couple of exceptions.
One I did touch on, that being WWOEC artists can upload whatever kind of art that they make, and becoming one is no more difficult than asking. Philip certainly would have made the cut had he ever applied.
Another exception is those images that don't meet the criteria may be hosted off site and have a link posted.
The mods have been advising people of that too, and this seems like all that should be needed to placate those members who are truthfully upset about the rule from an artistic freedom viewpoint, and not just the few that complain because they were told they can't do whatever they want.
And finally, the exception which the pic you referenced falls under.
If an image is part of an ongoing narrative, telling a story such as a comic in progress, so long as subsequent images in the set do include nudity. The image you pointed out is part of an ongoing storyline, not a one off pic.
In closing, I will say yes, if you look hard enough you may indeed find some non nude images. There is a shit ton of content in the forums, and more is added every hour of every day.
It is inevitable that some things do slip past the eyes of those charged with forum upkeep. If in the course of your browsing you do find such images; if you want to report them, that's fine; if you don't, that's fine too. A few pics, that have become buried under new content over the years, and as such are rarely viewed anyway, really aren't hurting anything. Just don't get bent out of shape if either someone else reports them, or one of the mods happen on it themselves and takes it down.
Thank you Tusconcoyote for your excellent analysis of the issue. I too have noted clothed pictures posted on some threads where nothing was said while others in other threads were taken down. This sort of unequal treatment, especially in one case where another poster deliberately commented that the picture was in violation of the rules yet nothing was done, is what forced me to no longer post over there.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry Anonymous, your snake oil just won't sell over here...
I'm not selling any snake oil today, just trying to clear up some misconceptions.
DeleteYes I will admit that in among the thousands of images on the forum, there are some non nudes the don't fall under the exceptions Ive listed.
the no clothed pics rule has been around since very early on, if not day one. However, it wasn't until recently that enforcement of the rule has been active. Bandwidth going into the red zone is the reason for that, and the upsurge of new Spambot accounts, and script hacks have not made the staffs job any easier.
As far as I know, or have seen, there isn't any unequal treatment going on. If you could, please show an example of an image that is not precluded by the exceptions Ive given, one that cant be explained as something the mods missed. An Image the clearly violates the rule, has been reported as such, and has been left up.
Lastly. After looking up your profile on the forum, I now know the specifics or your beef with roger.
You had a image pulled due to the commission rule because there was a miscommunication between the person who paid for the image and Roger. The member was okay with it being there, but worded his comment in a very ESL way, and it read as though he wanted it removed. once the misunderstanding was understood, roger apologized. but by then you had already made a departure thread to stomp your feet and tell everyone You're taking your ball and going home.
Look, I've been burned by the commission rule too and so have may others, and most of us still have a positive outlook about the forum and roger. the uproar over that issue has cooled off, and those that upload images have been doing a good job of checking what they upload. those few that miss some now and then and have them removed, know it's nothing personal, and apparently unlike you, don't take it that way.
Nice try, but no sale...
ReplyDeleteSo now who's being snarky eh?
ReplyDeleteBTW, I'm still patently waiting to see some proof of alleged unfair treatment.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to bother to reply. We all left WWOEC for reasons we feel are quite clear and reasonable, and you're coming over here and telling all of us _we're_ wrong is harassment. Complain about us over at WWOEC all you want, but stop abusing our host's bandwidth telling us we weren't treated unfairly and trying to get us to come back. We're not, and that won't change...
ReplyDeleteI'm not asking you to come back, I'm here posting the other side of the story for visitors here, and this will be my last post.
ReplyDeleteYou guys left because you uploaded something that was not permitted, and got what amounted to a stern look, not even a slap on the wrist. instead of rationally dealing with it and moving on, you figured it would be better to make a big fuss about it in-front of everyone, say you're leaving then slam the door.
On top of all that none of you really left anyhow. You gripe here about how bad the place is yet you still come back to look at what's posted, which you are welcome to do, but then what was the point of a departure thread. That's like griping you hate everything about Christmas but you still will keep the gifts you get.
The one and only reason I started posting here is because I don't think it's a good thing to try influence people with an interest in erotic art into not give WWOEC a look, because you personally did not mesh well with the rules of the site. I addressed the points you made and offer counterpoints
One post gives an example which helpfully made me recall an exception to the rule in question. All I did is ask for a similar example of eltf177 claim, but suddenly that's harassment.
I believe that people reading along will be intelligent enough to make what they will of that conundrum.
eltf177, you feel you were treated unfairly, and I know I can't do anything to change your feelings about that, and as I stated above, I am not trying. Yet, throngs of other members, myself included, got the same deal that you did... numerous times. However, they either didn't think it unfair, or didn't think it mattered enough to say word one on it. We both know that it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference how Roger worded his reprimand, because you're really only upset because you were reprimanded. You got told you couldn't do something and, more than anything, that's what pissed you right the hell off.
Those of you watching this back and forth from the sidelines can disperse, as I've said all I feel I need to say. If you've never been to WWOEC, come take a look and judge for yourselves, don't just take one or two guys' word for it.
I'm just going to pop back in to say that the 'no clothed pics' rule has been changed. Now, as long as the image has sexy clothing ie. lingerie/swimsuit, or is sexually suggestive, they are allowed.
ReplyDeleteSo much for the site and staff being inflexible...